onewithhim wrote:
otseng wrote: I think we can all agree Sheol is not similar to the New Testament concept of hell, whether you believe in the afterlife or not.
People may agree on all or some of the following:
– All people go to Sheol
– There is no judgment of the dead
– There is no punishment of the dead
– Sheol can refer to a physical location (grave, pit), a spiritual location (where all the souls of the dead go to), or used in an idiom (doesn’t literally refer to any physical or spiritual location, but is just an expression).No, we cannot all agree that Sheol is not similar to the NT concept of hell. It is exactly the same as “hell” in the NT.
One proof of this is to compare a mention of Sheol in the OT with the mention of the that identical scripture in the NT.
“For you will not leave me in the Grave [SHEOL]. You will not allow your loyal one to see corruption.” (Psalm 16:10)
And then, quoting Psalm 16:10: “Because you will not leave me in the Grave [Hades,or, hell], nor will you allow your loyal one to see corruption.” (Acts 2:27)
The word “Sheol” in the Hebrew compares and is interchangeable with, the word “hell [Hades]” in the Greek.
My point is hell in the OT (Sheol) is not the same as hell in the NT (Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus).
Yes, I can agree that Sheol is similar to Hades. But, Sheol is not similar to Gehenna or Tartarus.
Translations of the Bible make an assumption that all three terms used in the NT refer to the same place, so a single word hell is used for all three. I believe it’s a false assumption since Gehenna and Tartarus do not fit the descriptions of Sheol. It makes it too confusing and it’s a part of the reason we have such problems today with the concept of hell.
I’ve given all the references to hell (Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus). If we just look at these passages, it is not the same as the typical modern view of hell. We have added a lot to the concept of hell (even the word hell itself makes things confusing) that are from extra-Biblical sources (other religions, cultures, literature, folklore, etc).
So, we need to first find out what exactly the Bible does say about hell. I’ve already provided my list. If people have anything to add, please do so. After we agree on what does the Bible say about hell, we’ll discuss the concepts of hell that are not in the Bible.
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=970290#p970290
onewithhim wrote: P.S. You responded to my post #82 where I said that “Sheol” and “Hades/hell” are the exact same thing (and proved it with two identical Scriptures from both old and new Testaments), by saying that they were NOT the same thing, without giving any solid reason why.
Here’s what I said:
otseng wrote: My point is hell in the OT (Sheol) is not the same as hell in the NT (Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus).Yes, I can agree that Sheol is similar to Hades. But, Sheol is not similar to Gehenna or Tartarus.
The problem is the NT uses the same word “hell” for Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus. So, when I said Sheol is not the same as hell in the NT, I use the term in a collective sense of hell having all the attributes of Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus.
Conceptually, Sheol and Hades are similar since they both referred to the underworld where all would go to. However, Sheol is described differently than Gehenna and Tartarus.
Gehenna is described as a place where people could be cast into by God, soul and body is destroyed, and could be damned in. These qualities are not used for Sheol. So, Sheol would not be the same as Gehenna.
While we’re on the subject of soul and body, here is a verse that indicates humans have two separate components: body and soul.
[Mat 10:28 KJV] 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.People can kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. Only God can destroy both the body and soul. So, this implies the soul lives after the body dies. (Additionally, this verse also implies the soul is not necessarily immortal.)
Tartarus is described as a place where angels that sinned are cast into. Sheol is not described this way, so that’s why I say Sheol and Tartarus are not the same thing.
Now, if one assumes Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, and Sheol are all symbolic terms for death, then one can say they are all the same thing. But, without making that assumption, and just looking at it by simply using what the Bible does describe them as, Sheol and Gehenna/Tartarus are portrayed differently.
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=970552#p970552