Laws of thermodynamics

POI wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 11:26 pmOur universe is considered to be actually real and has always existed in one form or another, as matter/material can neither be created nor destroyed

The argument the universe is eternal based on matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed is a misunderstanding of the first law of thermodynamics.

The first law states:

“In general, the conservation law states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

“Within an isolated system, the total energy of the system is constant, even if energy has been converted from one form to another. (This is another way of stating the law of conservation of energy: that energy can not be created or destroyed but merely converted from one form to another.)”
https://www.britannica.com/science/laws … modynamics

The law of conservation of energy (and matter) states:

The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time. In the case of a closed system the principle says that the total amount of energy within the system can only be changed through energy entering or leaving the system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

The law only applies to an isolated or closed system. Obviously if a system is open and not isolated, matter/energy can enter and leave that system.

What is claimed is God created the system (universe) and added energy/matter into the universe. Even in a “naturalistic” explanation such as a multiverse, our universe would be created from something outside our universe.

So, the first law does not show our universe is infinite in age.

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1150488#p1150488

otseng wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 8:31 am There’s only two options I can think of:
1. Universe is eternal and a closed system.
2. Universe is finite in age and an open system.

Option 1 is not possible because of the second law of thermo.

“The second law of thermodynamics states that in a natural thermodynamic process, the sum of the entropies of the interacting thermodynamic systems never decreases.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

Second Law of Thermodynamics: every energy transfer that takes place will increase the entropy of the universe and reduce the amount of usable energy available to do work (or, in the most extreme case, leave the overall entropy unchanged). In other words, any process, such as a chemical reaction or set of connected reactions, will proceed in a direction that increases the overall entropy of the universe.