Start debating in justify the belief that gods do not exist

Looks like this will be a very interesting thread…

3. Theists make claims that they say are justified, but the consistently fail to provide that justification.
Only one thing. The continual failure for theists to demonstrate the existence of any gods, for the past 6000 years. That is enough for me to shift from weak atheism to strong atheism.

This is shifting the burden. The OP is asking for justification that gods do not exist. Claiming that theism has no valid arguments (which I disagree with) is not justification for atheism. And even if there is NO argument for theism, on your argument alone, it can only lead one to agnosticism, not strong atheism.

wiploc wrote: 1. The Parable of the Pawnbroker:

Never heard of this one.

I think the only thing this parable shows is that the customer is not trustworthy, it does not show that gold chains do not exist. It might not exist in the customer’s pocket, but it does not show that a gold chain cannot exist. The parable even demonstrates this in that the pawnbroker had a test to show if it was a gold chain or not. Having the test reveals that a gold chain can actually exist.

wiploc wrote: 2. The Presumptive Falsity of Outrageous Claims

This makes the assumption that the existence of god is an outrageous claim. This is not a neutral approach, but shows one is already biased against it. What justification do you have that theism is outrageous? If anything, I would claim that theism is quite normal.


Divine Insight wrote: 4. The bible god is shot thru with errors, contradictions, absurdities, and cannot therefore be real.
In other words, I can prove logically that the literal Bible is blatant example of many logical contradictions. The Biblical God that is literally described by the Bible cannot logically exist because the bible literally contradicts its own God countless times throughout the biblical literature.

Yes, “contradictions” exist in the Bible. But, that in itself does not disprove Christianity.

There are many possibilities to account for contradictions.

One is that our interpretations are incorrect, like you already mentioned.

Another possibility is that we’re limited in our understanding. An example of this is the “contradiction” of whether light is a particle or a wave. Light exhibits properties of both, but we do not reject it simply because of a contradiction in our understanding of it.

Another explanation is that we can have an incorrect view of the Bible. Yes, it’s an important book, but the Bible is not what Christians worship (or should not be worshiping). The Bible did not drop straight down from heaven on earth. But, we must acknowledge that flawed people wrote it, transcribed it, and translated it. God can use flawed people, but the work of flawed men will make its way into the Bibles that we hold in our hands today.

wiploc wrote: And I’ll add

5. The Problem of Evil.

This is a huge one. I’d even say this is the biggest challenge to Christianity. I’ll defer on addressing this one until later.